An Unpopular cup of Tea (Smith)

February 20th, 2017 · 49 mins 36 secs

About this Episode

Tea and I challenge each other constantly in the spheres of advertising, marketing and DIY business technology. Ultimately, she always wins, but the fight is the main reason I'm here. Enjoy!

Auto-generated Transcript

Josh Withers: [00:00:00] This is the popular podcast Josh with us here. And joining me today is perthes A very own Tea Smith from Kintsugi. I was really quiet with the pronunciation. Yes. Tell us who Kintsugi is and who you are.

Tea Smith: [00:00:16] Old brand new brand. So still it's been a few years but certainly Agency is something that's actually funny story I registered the domain six years ago. The name Reddit resonated with me. I sat on it going that's going to be something one day. And because of the interstate and some licencing issues and stuff I couldn't use the agency name that I moved across with. So I went oh I need a new name and Kintsugi appears. And it's actually become quite great it's about you could edit this out. It's about the concept you can see is broken pottery that they meld together with gold and it becomes a new unique piece. And I think that metaphore applies very much to what I do in marketing. I often inherit from happening and in broken stuff and you know not to be naff about it but to you know meld it with gold and fix it and make something new and unique There's really everything together.

Josh Withers: [00:01:14] There's an old adage that the convert is much more passionate than believer. Yes. And whether this is religion or sport or whatever the brand. And so is there an essence of an apologize for a kitchen in the background when we're recording in Brisbane. There are so friends that are serving I'm making a whole lot more. But is there is there is an element of you like you don't really deal with fresh freshets kind of you can do with people you like. Everything I've done is terrible. Let me help you.

Tea Smith: [00:01:50] Yeah I think in 2017 unless you you know to coin a phrase Fresh Off The Boat into marketing and you're in your to you know your first business. I think most people have been burned. I think most people have had some bad experiences and good experiences with digital marketing. I think there's a bit of a backlash occurring around you know the new social media shiny things they're finding that people you know people are finding that they're overstretched that they're struggling to do stuff. You know the novelty has very much worn off and people are trying to see the actual business value for their activity over the years. I you know I've obviously worked from you know so it was a micro right up to now enterprise.

Tea Smith: [00:02:28] I've got some rather large global clients now.

Josh Withers: [00:02:31] Is that kind of where you sit like although I don't know I checked anyone but you got to sit in the enterprise space.

Tea Smith: [00:02:36] I don't reject people but I do filter. So for me I'm very much about. I really like to rally around a problem. I find it very very hard to sit in a traditional agency pitch because for me a lot of it is you know once you're out it's like a date. You know you kind of sitting there awkwardly trying to guess what the other person wants rather than actually rolling up your sleeves and rallying around a problem and trying to find a strategy and a way out of that problem. So for me I've sort of carved a nation where. I will sit down and consult with somebody around the problem not make you know again you know a lot of people have made promises over the years. People are Agency fatigued. They're kind of sick of the sort of hipster promise and the non-delivery and all of those very heavy artillery to a Facebook page and a viral video. Yeah. Yeah like I like the buzz and get your you know it doesn't influence a marketing and have you heard of the Kurdish youth club and you know Josh's haircut aside I know it's not one of them.

[00:03:38] I hope you are offended. I know he's wearing an apple and my coffee order has fast. Yes. It's very complicated and it's you know he's heard of it before everybody else.

[00:03:52] So the whole long popular deal is is that I want to speak to people that aren't everyone's people. And that was the people in the community like like like we're we're not for everyone.

[00:04:04] Wouldn't we just sensually that. I think yes.

[00:04:08] But there's there's a weird economy and the people you talk to DO want to talk to everyone but like I like more than 50 percent.

[00:04:17] Yeah like I resonate with the right people. But

[00:04:21] for those come the corporations they're like the corporations doing the enterprises you're working with better want to reach point zero percent of the lot and they want to reach my 10. Yeah only 50 maybe 100. Yeah. And so and so this is the way with the economy we're going to bring in. And so I want to talk to you more on the side of your business and also where you've been because you've built in and helped many people in very small. Dare I say unpopular business yes.

[00:04:45] Yes. And so I want to chime in silver because of the whole thing of the podcast want to solve a problem. Yeah. But but tell us about. You because you and I talk about marketing and advertising a lot on social media in person. We disagree just like I think it's different types of agreement. But advertising doesn't come down to a binary to say I'm not good or bad that's the Lee act of marketing you're saying hey you never know about something. That's right. And it's messaging and campaigns. Yeah. So what's so good. What's your view outlook on marketing advertising social. Blah blah blah.

[00:05:24] So I mean like where do you go as you know I'm I'm actually a political scientist and social worker by trade and so and I did a lot of work in political campaigns. Like when I was younger and really the way that I think is I apply it to that. The difference between somebody voting and buying is the same thing. There's a very high end to your ideas in politics vs. you know they're buying into your values and or product with marketing. So for me I kind of like to feel like one of the good guys. Yeah. So in some senses I sidestep a lot of this advertising business stuff because I'm really more focussed on persuasive messaging and make you know making people come to you like that whole pied piper effect. So for me I have forgotten the question.

[00:06:09] Well we were talking to state about the housing market because I know that if a lot of just because they're in some way trying to advertise a market and they're trying to either reach more people to get their product or service or that the people have only reach they want an incentive to spend.

[00:06:24] And so that's a that's a part of a business or these least a long time in the state is very much now about cut through and noise.

[00:06:33] I think we've reached a point where any given day you wake up to 50 notifications and that's if you turn your notifications off for most things like I go to sleep and you know this 35 Facebook notifications my notifications are really locked down.

[00:06:49] This morning I work at 12. Yeah. I mean like I have I have endlessly.

[00:06:54] This is key notifications emails and you know even even if you set up the most rigorous filtering with notifications and systems there's still so much noise and I know for me I just bring that example email marketing right. I actually strongly believe that email marketing has value but it's that that real sweet point between pestering somebody and catching them at the right time I know when I check my e-mails in the morning if I'm getting an EM. An idea is the same word for e-mail. People who don't work in an ad agency I I'd explain that I'm just a quote lone mask or all that kind of suck.

[00:07:33] Yes I know it's an industry thing and I'm the first person to say that but you know it's the buzz words. So if you send an e-mail newsletter to your clients I find it quite funny that people would look on a blog and say what's the optimal time of day to post. And then you get six e-mails in at 11 23 am on a Tuesday and you don't read any of them so you're kind of constantly stay ahead of you know optimal plus plus cut through. So for me my optimal time is not at that time because I've got people who are quite funny and quite ironic that that's that's the end result is that thinking is very much around there's no right way. The point is that there is no right way to do it. And there's one e-mail that I read on a regular basis and I want to use this highlight an example as an example and you can get it this is almost nothing and it only ended in disaster because hold on to say we set the terms that a through radio Brown even I will stretch that one. No. Is Bob Hoffman.

[00:08:41] He's the ad contrarian and he constantly challenges digital marketing. And I love being challenged as you know I don't like to exist in an echo chamber.

[00:08:50] It's pretty much the whole your and my whole existence even just now you just fuck with each other mentally. Yeah.

[00:08:57] Even just now I sat down and I went. Josh you need to stop whining because it's going to hurt you in the future. He's very uncomfortable for a minute. And you know resonated with you a little bit.

[00:09:10] But anyway so my point being that I will whenever I see Bob's email I stop and I read because it's compelling. And I buy his ideas. And I love what he says and what a lot of what I'm doing on things like Linked In after Bob but still shit on things.

[00:09:28] How do you feel when an e-mail comes into your inbox you like. I don't know why I have it now because my inbox is a sacred place. My. I have I've gone to great lengths to unsubscribe from everything I have. What kind of example Bron bonds like with a clothing company. I mistakenly gave my e-mail just for a 20 percent discount the other day and yeah the unsubscribe button does not work yet. My inbox is so precious yet and I actually don't sign up to loyalty programs now much. I will do it. Oh come on. I'm a child and I love it. This is a check that takes place.

[00:10:06] But she's always objected to my rant about you know why I know why they really want me to join. I just want my e-mails.

[00:10:12] Sometimes I'm just not sure. I was told to do this and why don't you want a discount.

[00:10:18] I really I'd rather pay for privacy right now. You know I really just want to be left alone. I actually get really really annoyed and I'm OK. And I also the thing is I also understand how it feels when you know the sales and the funnels not quite looking good. That temptation to explore illington contacts and put them on MailChimp. It's so tempting because you think. I need leads. I'm desperate. You know I've been there. You know I know that feeling where. And the second you hit send it feels like it feels dirty really.

[00:10:51] I really don't you if would have received incidentally about two years ago I accidentally did allow access to lead to do some web service. Yes. And at the Kramer everyone a groupie now I know from been part of everyone linked in your outlook. And even today every day every day of your life. I like you're on this because this person six in 10 every two years. Yeah. I like all the time.

[00:11:18] And most people sign up to their LinkedIn on jeep on their private e-mail accounts so that they can still access notifications. And I know for me you've got to respect that personal space. I actually don't. I know it's quite a strange thing but I still feel very hesitant about calling mobile numbers.

[00:11:35] For example I know it's a bit like me but it feels like I really it's probably a form of what sort of form of social anxiety but I don't like intruding on people.

[00:11:48] So you really get them a new all new kind of a new Yorker this week about that. Yeah. I mean I'm not the one that said it's awful in the Senate and too many articles but it is largely the social anxiety behind making here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm phone phobic which is quite a thing. I think what it is like someone will have two tweets and there is a joke and it said I am going to call my my congressman's office to complain about yeah and we so much Congressman or of a lunch discussing policy.

[00:12:24] That's you know I've never been able to really overcome that. But for me I think I know that temptation to you know you know people out of desperation is there and I think that that's a value especially to people who are starting up or small and they're really looking to do a drive. I think you should really really think hard. Are you better off messaging people by the platform than than trying to do a mailer. I mean just on that I accidentally e-mail people selling responsive e-mails with beautiful fonts that didn't work to a thousand people. So you know I fucked up too. So sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:03] Well I've learned all the hard things the hard way that annoying people saying I've got a question for you. And I know you're giving away advice free. So anyway I want to plug you guys because because there's there's a point where I don't go have any success look I give you all this information for free because many folks do it anyway.

[00:13:23] Yeah he was actually quality very very because of what he had for you because none of you would do it anyway. Yeah. But I ask him and I know he would as well as I do. I'm so I'm so so.

[00:13:33] Here's a question for you. So many people that listen to this podcast and the unpopular community or people that are going to do very much there is to use the car analogy they're currently in part they're sitting still or maybe they're in first year kind of rolling them. And they really want to get to 50. Yeah. And in a car using an accelerator you kind of you know you're taking off. But if you and I know you've been through this with conceiving like you like what what what what kind of accelerant like like where would you be accelerating to then trying to get your way. You know what.

[00:14:08] I'm not a fan of trying to get instant results and accelerating I think as people begin to see like like my back you have a zero and I need to pay rent so I pick up the phone.

[00:14:18] Yeah.

[00:14:19] And I know that that you know for me it brings all sorts of terror but I go on LinkedIn. That's where you would use your LinkedIn network and qualify. And for God's sake don't spam people with a generic message go through and go you know connect reconnect you know do it in a nice way and hey if you got anything you need any help. Is there anything I can help with. I've you know varying degrees of success over the years. But one thing that always works for me is helping people for free and going in with a genuine help for free.

[00:14:54] I never ever ever try to sell especially hard on first meeting.

[00:14:59] Always just meeting people because it needs attention. Because I'm mean I've always been a massive effort to do that.

[00:15:05] But like my we actually look at the two areas that I've ever had a big success business technology and rodeo. Both of those areas are sort of a free business. You know Mike Sims who maintain a will pass what was them like to a complete new computer store called Business Solutions and macklowe and Roger Roger. I'll go as far as I know Roger.

[00:15:25] Anyway it was an easy shot for me. He liked the idea of him and the Shopfitters doing the shop I liked. I like computers can I like volunteer and discolour and he's like yeah of course I'll say free work. And it took three weeks to prove my worth. Three weeks later I couldn't be a mother without a centrelink or something. I was like hey that thing you saw with me like it was a pub on a sort of cash register. I knew nothing about controversies but I'd read the manual I read everything I read the service my knollenberg like the you did with me go going to the thing I like the sentiment he's like Alright you hired.

[00:15:55] And I think for the audience though we need to qualify that. Well the social world really is I look I'm a massive advocate for the free. Yeah but there's there's been so much abuse of debt there's there's the old there's the exposure Dolan there's there's all that. Yes. Well what's your exposure your shit. Everybody out there is is your what is your play here. What was your point where like you have generously giving vs. on being abused.

[00:16:20] I'm very fortunate and I wish that there was a way to know this without having swamped that pavement and worked hard and learned. And unfortunately there's some charcoal for remains of previous businesses and tried trying to find that it's taken 20 years to learn national. It is a gut feeling.

[00:16:39] If you're good with people are naturally intuitive and get a sense of you know people you keep you always in retrospect you know if someone's a bad time or a potential rip off or a friend that's taking the piss or you know those sorts of things. But one thing I just want to emphasize that any time I've done free work the money is there. So it's always an opportunity to prove my value knowing that they've got money and that they're willing to put money down and if in the event of something else or that they're an actual genuine prospect. I

[00:17:11] don't just give free stuff to people so you're looking for a longer relationship yet I am strategic. I could call it strategically. You know I built my business my initial business which is at least an hour for free and it getting exposure into the entertainment industry that way. This podcast is literally that is mostly just catching up and having a chat.

[00:17:33] But this is I wouldn't consider this a cons but I think it's that balance between valuing your time and you know I like to get I don't get out of a house and I say if anyone says you want a coffee I'm usually pretty keen. I mean I'd probably drive to drive to Sydney during the holidays to get out of a house you know just for a coffee.

[00:17:53] You know it really depends on where I'm at but yeah I think it you know it's something unfortunately that you learn over time and I'm sure that any wedding photographer or you know those or anyone who works in services has been burnt enough home and much like a relationship we learned to pick up those red flags. Over time you learn right.

[00:18:11] I'm going to tangela because the fashion wedding photographer. Yeah. And I think a lot of business with them. I mean think I have a friend now who were well we were talking about there an opportunity for him to shoot a wedding dress. Yeah. And and so they look lot like in a regular transaction. Here's my thing. And he has trouble and maybe there's a bit of this bit of cream to make because there's buffering I'm going to be away for a week. So know we say okay that's actually going to cost you 10 grand or sprinting around. And and there's there's you like like trochaic I cover the cover troubled cost like this quiet that probably never going to me. I can't lie to you hopefully and everybody laughs. Maybe there's a few off limits a fan issue but it's not going to be this long standing relationship. So how do you feel about that.

[00:18:57] Well that's where you need to really sit back. And look at the other intangible things that might be of value to you either an opportunity to say you worked in Greece an opportunity to see this you know like you think the is social There is a social value when I leaves he wants to approach to that which I think which is that there's word again not explosion but word of mouth word of mouth marketing does have a dollar value attached exposure just not very different things. You know the opportunity to then marketing grease so that you're piggybacking the number of different projects as you know or something where you are looking to the exposure which is you know like take your brand more globally and you did that you know you quite expect to do that and then it. Just happened. And now that's something you're known for as destinations and sort of thing. So it's something that evolves. And. Always if you're a fairly emotionally balanced okay person you always always listen to Red flags. When it comes to crime. Yeah that's the only thing that I can emphasize is that you usually know if something is good for you and something like the other thing that is really important to do is go. If it's a little bit cheaper or if it's a little bit you look at the value of that criteria more money not considered. Apologies. I hit snooze not stop is to actually look at the intangible value of that client so which is do they align with my values.

[00:20:23] Would this be a fun thing to do because you know you get a lot of hurdles. It could just be would it be cool. You know like I actually say what business is okay as part of your strategic strategy to me. You just want to be popular and cool. That's a Mac that's a metric. It's cool. It's fine. It doesn't have to be attached to a dollar figure or no. There's intangibles that you can look at as well. So is being a bit more measured and I think most people know when they can trust. Yeah. And it just comes down to listening to those little birdie on the shoulder.

[00:20:54] I'm going to move on to what was before we turn the microphone on and. Cause there's this there's an interesting there's a point where businesses reach where they need to. So this is bigger than me. This requires more than me. Yes. Which is. And straddle that. Everyone struggles differently.

[00:21:16] And the whole crux of the whole unpopular thing is like a bunch of automations of his or robotic or things or automated things or a little more sort of towards lubricating things like this process that takes you. This this this and this is that we just had more so the lights went smoothly and so when you when you get an inquiry when you get a when you get it whatever.

[00:21:36] It's not such a process it's more lubricated. So I'm not even at. Yeah. So that's one thing I know that I know I know what you charge me and that is that you get to hire someone.

[00:21:48] So for example the whole I'm popular Web site. It's also the it's based on plugins and things that I've done and automations and I agree there's a point where I probably will hire someone. And so I want to ask you about all emotions not just get moving but before you get to. Preach for a second about that because because your thing as everyone does are in marketing like this you need some help. Yeah.

[00:22:13] I think that there is a trade off there. I think the idea if you're serious about your business you're going to be thinking long term. Even when I sign up a client if they're on it I make sure that they're even if they don't want this sort of high degree of automation and sophisticated staff and events and goals and Google Analytics all that sort of stuff that they will that they've got and make sure that the foundation is good. If you DIY and hack stuff you just get you know the trade-off is that you may spend more later when you hire someone than having to undo stuff or fix stuff like me as a fixer. I inherit a lot of stuff that needs to be redone you know and that sort of you know so it is a trade off and I've got a bit funny with you because I was like you know in light of the previous conversation around not valuing services and being and professional services knowing when to let go and trust the professional. And pay them accordingly. And you know their start up and cobbling together and pulling stuff together. But there's a certain truth in that that that very very as some people were more resourced when they start some not so much. You know if you forgot who you're sitting on a hundred grand and can spend 20 grand on a website and get it right first time hopefully with an agency that doesn't fuck it up you know. Yeah it just you just again as a series of trade offs in business gets complicated.

[00:23:31] There is a series of trade offs. But the long term thing is it's important to me you know. It's literally the tagline it's like like probably with his mouth sustainable. Exactly once percent say no it's not about just having a business for today it's about business. My clock it was for it. Yeah. This is really cool. Yes it's reasonable to that we can look at it and I think it's Wednesday and it's like listen I hear you're saying about who's yesterday was Valentine's Day that's all I know that's my reference. You know so so this is really cool. I feel very lucky to back from somewhere yesterday flying. I like this. I will be here forever. Yeah.

[00:24:05] And services sustainability the long term thing is really important to me. It's also. Part of the sustainability is about not spending a dollar today but a million dollars to be done on Wall Street and also knowing again to value your own time.

[00:24:20] It's a false economy. When you do it yourself to an extent which is you know I talked about that when you met Paul who can do stuff and you know connect IPO as sort of stuff in two hours versus someone who might spend a week learning so it's it's it's about if for the sake of you know a few hundred bucks investment now you're saving. You got a week off.

[00:24:39] But many people listen just like they have time don't have money. Yeah that's a viable thing.

[00:24:44] But you just got to be mindful of the fact that may be you know a balloon payment of a car title. It's the same thing you've just got to be mindful that there might be a bigger investment down the road. A good problem to have and you be growing but. Yeah. Yeah absolutely.

[00:25:00] It's just like it's a really interesting conversation because I like for example with my businesses all one wants to look after our social capability we have the capability. There is going to become a big business. Look I looked. I looked at our website maribor. I shall come. I thought it is a good is good. I know why and I question is why is it working or is it not working. Or it is a question not particularly particularly in the sobering game.

[00:25:27] I think I came in. Really high not just for my own design. I can really high and I do one I set the bar.

[00:25:39] Obviously when you selebi it was like oh yeah we now need to so able to climb out that shit. Yeah I dont think I need to set a new bar curse of being an innovator.

[00:25:49] Yeah and then there is that is another side of last week's strange day when it's time a and suddenly he's just launched or he's launching a new website and I look I looked at his website and I really like it. But then there's this tingling thing away in my brain was like this this is just too far or my dream. This is like oh this is a negative thing on that I'm just stunned. It's a question I ask like because he really wanted to do a really beautiful Web site because he's in the same was a bit like this and he is an old anvar and he has these visual for is that the sense that he has the luxury of thousands and thousands of photos without having to use his toes.

[00:26:27] It's a good thing if it's really good to have lots of content. It's a it's a we're building dream. We can make anything.

[00:26:35] So I know for me like I'm I'm always from a question. Like. I think there's going to be a day where I've got I've got to I've got to invest in that. And I'm just I don't know maybe this is the end of that conversation but I don't know what that is it's also thinking about the architecture.

[00:26:49] So for you you're on WordPress right. You've got things that are based on API is not just cobbled together plug ins you're not hacking corcos. That's what I mean about thinking in the future. You've got the fundamentals and the framework and the architecture there so that any agency you know any god forbid any agency tries to say you proprietaries the IRS in 2017. If you're on WordPress or drupal you're going to be fined. Unless you're hacking court code please don't ever hack the core code.

[00:27:17] Let me I will I will talk to you for free. I had to stop you from that. I remember in all my hair intervention your previous employer and I had a radio and it worked for me.

[00:27:26] They spent upwards of 200 thousand dollars on buying a semester into a thing of digital.

[00:27:32] Yeah but it worked for us. Yeah. Saying like you do you send you a message. Yes. That's right. This is like yeah that's okay. We could have just dropped in wordpress. Thank you. Anyway that's a homo like you know much like my hairdresser says I will tone your hair for free. Don't die black. I've been trying to go back to my natural colour for years and I get to a certain point right now I want to colour it again. And she's I will tone it for free. It's good for your own interests I'm. I'm telling you before you start hacking something you don't know.

[00:28:02] Ever check out the podcast about a murder you know cause because your your probably one of the few people that's as dirty dancing as me I like like we live in the same business field normally or try and like solve a problem but I don't I don't know if you got to promise I can say so we'll skip that step. And you be willing to share like a stalker app or a web service or like a recent thing. This is really cool. Use Siri or whatever it might be. Yeah.

[00:28:28] I'm actually I talk about whether or not you need a website to solve this to sell your business even as a digital agency. Right. I've actually got a contact form. I don't if you visit concern dot com Did you know. It's got my name and a contact form on it. I've been procrastinating on it now for six months because I've now decided to still do it because they're children you know again it's that whole DIY and lack of objectivity and I know faffing around. And for me it's actually been an interesting exercise because my procrastination has revealed to an extent that just by using LinkedIn and existing networks and those sorts of things I've actually had a much better run in terms of leads and that sort of stuff and I'm actually quite strategically not using much SC.

[00:29:15] I'm not playing that race. The bottom game anymore so it's actually quite interesting that if you're neat enough you don't need a CEO because people find you based on your ideas and your content. And so you know there's certain things that I'm actually an active experiment to see how or how long it's actually been this week. I need a website because not only a government has come to me and gone oh you need one because this comes like till I was four.

[00:29:37] Yeah. Because because I don't confuse the main man in e-mail. No. There it all again. Yeah. But because somebody that kind of time. Yeah. Like like email me at the window but we don't provide Social proof that you exist. So that's four different businesses that were present approved of a thing. Yes. So what does an agency website for.

[00:29:58] Let's let's get this.

[00:29:59] I tell you your problems Agency is what for I think for me very much what I do is leveraging relation because people come to me to fix stuff. They generally know they do not like my ideas and we have a chat and I solve their problem for me. Agency websites and general wanky as well. And I think that they all look the same. And I think that people look the same. And I think that again if anything it's a really good example in in that in that hive mind you know where for me I've always said I you know I'm a hipster free agency I'm actually a professional. I actually really want to build my offices to look like old TV law officers to be the opposite of those you know those funky agency things which you know I don't want to do I'm zagging when everyone else is sort of zigging wrong post about the left and right. Yeah. And it gets it works it doesn't work all the time do you know how many times on a daily basis I'm told to behave like I you know I actually posted something on linked in with the C word in it the other day was that because I was dead by France I don't care because you know you sit down with me for five seconds and I start swearing like a sailor. But it's just I think it's just for me it's in.

[00:31:18] I'm a really good example of polarisation and also really bad example because I'm actually it made all the mistakes come out the other side you know knowing how to do it strategically I used to do it because I was in my 20s and thought I was put very different things right. It's happenstance that I'm here. Really your your An.

[00:31:41] Yes. That's my of whole sentence.

[00:31:46] Why did to stop the whole state of mind.

[00:31:49] Maybe an old case or someone who has a university education. If you give a little universally to your person just as much time at the school of.

[00:31:59] Hard Knocks. Yes school streets I don't want whatever you I am completely self-taught in this business your business. Equally like submitting yourself to the traditional educational. Game and you've also submitted yourself. This is by a Super Bowl. Yeah.

[00:32:14] Oh that's just yeah it's mostly just my way. I wouldn't say that it's a good thing. It's cost me money postered me many a friendship and those sorts of things over the years.

[00:32:22] But if you get if you have an 18 year old kid sitting in front of them looking for advice do you do like I think Robin Williams is famously someone who is a combatant. He's like don't. Cause the whole joke was that all it takes is me. So mean you're not going to make it anyway. You tell them to do something to get you to want to just jump to give it a shot to fail for a while. I'm actually going through this with my daughter at the moment.

[00:32:49] She knew I was on what she is reporting seeing photos of her. Gosh.

[00:32:55] I just remember like a little fairy princess but she won't like me talking about her family very much but we're just from a point of view of going through that. She's at the age where she should be getting a job. I said to my daughter you know it's time for you to start thinking about a part time job after school. And I heard myself for the first time repeating things that I you know that's actually completely opposite to my values where I'm parroting the values you know what I call linked in values. Which is that group think are linked in with a job you know I had people say you'll never get a job with LinkedIn I don't want one.

[00:33:37] And. I mean we just leave it to my credit. We're got to go into the restaurant here back here.

[00:33:44] Yeah. We said get a you know I heard myself kind to check myself. And I went you know what she doesn't need to. She's a talented really talented artist. She's a really good writer. She's actually got really I'm actually going to get her doing my thing for me.

[00:33:59] You say she's gone to Egypt so.

[00:34:02] That's what. She can get. That's what she thinks. I think she is. She is she won't admit it but she's probably going to end up exactly like me. With. Mother issues.

[00:34:12] At home. No no but seriously I go she does it at her generation doesn't need a job.

[00:34:19] Education is always valuable. But she's also the custom in our in our generation. We were still you know subjected to testing and she can take a year off and go to you know. Laureat and there's always alternative pathways. Now she's a customer. She can go anywhere she wants and get an education. You know I'm I don't know. My answer is just see what is winging it a bit have some idea of the direction value learning. Have a thirst for learning and knowledge where that comes from. I mean I always say that an arts degree which is what I started with helps you to learn it doesn't teach you stuff. So you know like learning philosophy. Learning the basics learning learning learning how to learn and learning how to think that you know learning how to understand people and how they connect. And I think that's becoming more and more critical because we're so disconnected. You know I think that there are transferable and highly valuable skills that come from university. So it's very complicated. And I think it's very unique to the person that.

[00:35:24] Every parent wants their kids to go to uni. But that's again our own baggage as a generation. So. Yeah. I.

[00:35:34] Know. You said your website up or at least now.

[00:35:40] Yep. Yep. What happens. Is that. They. Get an e-mail to me.

[00:35:49] So it's very very it's it's very sad.

[00:35:53] I actually am of the view of things being. Less is more and focussing on the people stuff. Matter. I just. Think. There are so. So we use this just like you. Yeah. So we're actually in the process because we've only been in business and polls really only come on board with the integration's and that's his part. He's like you know I don't like using sea levels for a small business. But he's like my cto you know. Yes. He would we currently sort of implementing systems which for us which is a combination of active collabs. Management software that's the centre and that's the hub of everything that we do. Because everything costs a relationship now and then we're integrating that and agile crm. So where do you see.

[00:36:41] Because I think it is here and. I should discuss you and press you but this is another thing to be at to see around get. So a little bit more. Shallow. Well. None of them. To me. So actually she is a ticket based help.

[00:36:59] Yes. Yes. Well. I could use it. OK. Just because I was the first one because I was the point which. Always helps. Yeah. Just looking for the crm help. Help. Me deal with. Yeah yeah yeah I brought. My husband wife. They were. All. Focussed on. Individuals. Yes.

[00:37:24] So. Agile it just makes my needs mostly because a lot of what I do is online. And I think I'm going to step back and not talk about my tools because I'm not going to recommend a tool. Because it's actually an approach which is that. What you need to do is answer two questions. What are you going to be in most of the time and build stuff around that too. Right. And also what systems do you have. Yes but what process you need to document and this is probably my enterprise approach talking rather than a small business but really think about the process and break down steps off line and online and see what can be replicated to make that all of that easier. Right. So before you start talking about the tool you've got to talk about the process and make sure that that is pointed down. The answer to that is agile meets that as closely as possible. I like I don't I hate flicking between multiple tools. I like to have one tool because the way that I do things I think of something and I forward the email to the project or I forward things and it goes in there and that's it. Right. I can just set and forget and just click right. That's how my ADT brain works. If I don't put it in there at the time it disappears.

[00:38:39] So yeah but I used the calendars and those sorts of integrations. That acted collab has.

[00:38:45] But again I just want to qualify that before anyone gets excited and goes and you know you've got to make sure that it mirrors.

[00:38:51] Your requirements. Yeah. I. Was even listening. Well. We're finally just finished doing their jobs. That's fine.

[00:39:03] So. I do want to share a tool so I can only take it as a check of the service.

[00:39:16] Yeah I agree. Yeah. It's all still.

[00:39:20] I make small talk about active clamp because it's actually you know like you've got your pulses and your asanas and Reich and all those are gone through every single one. Yes much. All of those. And for me active collab has the legacy of being that old or open source self install No the old yes the old days like you pencil and you say. But they've actually got a cloud version now. Which is.

[00:39:43] A. I can't remember. I think we paid two hundred dollars for the year. Five users. That's all we need. And I find it really good. The only thing that mrs. Gantt charts unless your kind of real Gantt Chart nerd.

[00:39:58] It's not really an issue but it's I actually do like an active collab and the integration features because you can actually push you know create new tasks create Project templates so if you're a wedding photographer and you've got a specific warning process you can pre populate all of those things with the templates. Much like any other project management. So what does it look like. Really. To. Install. Of. Just one object. Yeah. I'm. Assuming because project. Basis.

[00:40:29] It's not. So sold yet so once you. Yeah. And here they. Go. On with me. And I. Get what is it.

[00:40:37] Not. So when you in your crm market is closed it will push and create a new project to active plans and populate with templates and create all the task lists and all those things that you can then share with the client and we can check that off. So let's form. Yeah. Yeah. The only limitation that if you like to pull from active play you can't you can only push so it's only a you know what it does yes it does.

[00:41:02] Yeah. There's there's no triggers in it so it isn't as API but it's only I can't read what the word is. You've got the trigger point or whatever. But what it does focus on the action should be yes but you can't please yes yes yes yes.

[00:41:19] So we tend to use more manual API like coding so that's one of those apria to a point but not really.

[00:41:27] But again it's worth knowing that if something has an API just because it's not on sapir Doesn't mean you can't actually create a translator. So that's why it.

[00:41:37] Has it with books. Yeah. Yeah. So even if you're really looking to. This is. What we trying. To develop or even then even if ever was safe it was once yet. And you wanted to have a trigger CPS. With books. Yeah.

[00:41:55] Just give it credit for this. And you may need a licence or there might be a fee attached yet. But it's actually really good. So an active club also as you grow allows you to self install so you can move from the cloud to a cell phone store which allows you to get around the usual limit and also modify and plug plugins and those sorts of things to create its own robust solution so it gives you that sort of that migration path as if you know if you want to grow into a medium large business. As we all. Some of us want to and some of us don't. It's really good. So that's my tool of choice. After a year of exhaustive. Trying of million different I'm not I'm sorry I'm the worst person to ask because I still have to have the same Photoshop workflow from like four point. Unless I have to.

[00:42:44] Yeah and I probably put too much too far towards the break. Take a break. Yeah. Yeah. So I recognize there's a much more pervasive problem in the way every. I often don't use these new new Creative Cloud new toolbars I'm like was this thing do you know.

[00:43:02] And then I realized that I've saved myself you know probably hours and hours and.

[00:43:08] I was telling me you I wanted to just throw I thought I'd just throw things at all my grief and destruction or Donald Trump supporters like you know. So like I think it's one of three things that you see. I'm Guy for a social media automation. Yes. Like so.

[00:43:26] So. Is this school can't this I mean everything. No I mean don't bother manual.

[00:43:34] Don't bother with content. I'm on Facebook with your Facebook page do sponsored content. Focus on that and then target it. So you're saying don't focus on organic content with Facebook it's a waste of time.

[00:43:45] You got to throw money. You open that up by everyone. Everyone's minds are strongly Yeah.

[00:43:48] And I know you got to know what it's all about your cost crackers. Know it's all it's all about the numbers. One percent of people are going to see an organically roughly unless they subscribe. You could look thirsty and say space of scragged my feet. Or you could throw five bucks at it. I my pride is more. Than know five bucks so you know I think it's just more that you're just going to get cut through more. That way. Utilize Twitter. Hell no. Really honestly I don't. Like it. It's really fun.

[00:44:22] And I know you asked our automation not content related it is definitely related automation is always going to I'm going to do this in person time and then. Let it flow. Backwards because what you just said the whole sponsored post only what was. It really preached to which was social cause I'm a lot of us really know unless someone knows it's not me. Yeah. And. So I'll usually only throw money at Facebook if I'm. Doing this and discuss this in the next five years of well last year we should have had this on our Facebook. If I'm. Desperate. For on the money.

[00:45:00] That's. Why a construct that we will emerge from this. So people love it.

[00:45:10] I you know I really should for that for the next five years because you will. But no. But that's true I think.

[00:45:18] Well it's actually And the thing is that I would have given the opposite advice five years ago five years ago I would have said organic. But the rhythms change like they geared towards payment. Like if if let's just be pragmatic and I know you.

[00:45:29] Again you ask about automation which is a true conversation. Yeah yeah.

[00:45:33] It is the same but they are different which is the fact that philosophically I believe in authenticity personal and. And you're better off. Creating something meaningful. That will resonate. Automation in terms of scheduling the time that it posts. And and obviously running analytics and trigger points and fall in that funnel. And with the learning page all that sort of stuff. Yes. So it is very new. Again it's one of those things where I'm more bespoke. I don't like to give absolute advice situation but yet I focus on meaning and value.

[00:46:06] And you're going to be fine. I always say if you're going to grow out of traditionally had a bit of a viewpoint and maybe this is once again this is just me. I'm rationalizing. Also. But I. I've always had the viewpoint. Particularly in the wedding industry. If you want to see. An authentic voice and they want to be validated that you exist that you'll be at the central part. And so. When I post on Facebook today I'm. Not only posting for someone to see that post organically unpolished posting so that this next week when it's a gay issue should not be hidden in a Facebook page. Yes I shall scroll a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So almost four years on as I see them every day. Yes this is like he's his past. It's almost like. It's social proof. It's not it's not recent social proof it's just today social proof it's recent. You're right. And so that's kind of been my strategy. Do you think I'm rationalizing. No.

[00:47:03] And I think again that means strategy which is that you're dealing. With people who value that. On the individual level that's where the complexity comes in. Yes. The other answer is I don't do that. Is it like when you look at my Facebook page is dead because I've just been focussed on your.

[00:47:19] Money and actually hustling and selling and doing all the right things that I have been distracted with you know focus on social media because I was hiding behind you know social media or making excuses.

[00:47:31] So for me it's kind of finding that balance you know trying to get out of picking up the phone and actually have no official support on the 24th top to my closest.

[00:47:41] My oh my god people never guess what he wrote. You know.

[00:47:45] But I just want to mention as you think about it like I've talked about this before the boring tasks. Right. With social media you pay. So the more boring it is the more who should pay to get it seen. And I've actually got a graph I can share it with anybody who asks which is you know you've got down here you've got your dinner. You have to pay this much. You know like a million dollars to get interest interest in your dinner like a sledgehammer. You know you have to pay zero because it's interesting and shock worthy and you know so that's actually an in you know a proportional relationship between. So you're really just if you think about it like a tax.

[00:48:19] So if you're going to do blan stock photo you know everybody content you know if it's interesting it will spread a little bit of a boost in some sense.

[00:48:27] I bet it was more like the advertising time. Yeah. Like. Yeah. No actually I thought I can just actually call you back. So like yeah it is nearly two months ago. And what I know. But actually in the. Tax the more tax that was three years ago I wrote that on my blog. I'm calling up three. Yeah. And I got no credit.

[00:48:47] I would continue to protect you from here. I can copyright me a copyright takes me in 2013 before anyone else.

[00:48:58] You your links in these days so look for taher Smith.

[00:49:03] I'm short and you know I'm around the traps you know. Yes. It's actually an accent on the air. So if you have a trouble with the search engine but search for consumer the company and find me a K I N T S U G I. We do have a website launching in the next six months. I like to say that next week because I say that every week but we will get there and there are some awesome puns because I'm a big fan of puns so I look forward. It's quite delicious.

[00:49:32] Thank you for joining me for an unpopular morning. No problem. Thank you.